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Hi

 I have around £10k to spend.  I am 33, but only passed my test 4 years ago.  Since then had a 12 year old Vectra!  Time to upgrade :-)

 I went to cargiant.co.uk today and had a look at an Audi A3 S-Line 2.0 and BMW 320D.  Yes I know cargiant are not the best - but have good prices.  I am planning on getting a AA inspection done so i don't really screw up.

 I have always liked Audi, but sitting in it today it just felt - blah.  Sitting in the BMW made me smile. :-)  I also sat in the A6 - and felt like a king. However i live in London and parking is a nightmare so need something smaller.  I am a big guy so also dont want anything too small either.

 I want high spec - but dont mind the millage / age.

 What should I do?  As my first real proper car - which one would you get?

 Thanks

 I'm surprised you felt the A3 to be 'blah.'  Mind you I feel exactly the same about BMWs - their interiors are old fashioned, boring and badly executed, they make some of the ugliest car on the market  - and they're nothing special to drive either. Having owned both I would go for Audi every time. But really getting others' advice is largely pointless, you have to live with the car so go with your feelings.

I think you have answered your own question.  The fact the Audi made you feel blah, and the BMW made you smile says it all really.

A car is a very personal choice.  No matter what the magazines say, you should choose what suits you and makes you feel good.  Just for piece of mind though, the BMW will be a good choice on what ever level.

As you said the A6 is a big car, and using it round London will take patients.  The three series is that much smaller, you will notice the difference.  Just as a point of note though, have you considered a 3 series Compact?  Similar cabin, same engine, just less of a rump. 

Knowing people that have used car giant in the past, I wouldn't bother getting an AA check.  Their guys seem to be pretty much on the ball when they buy them in, so you know you are going to be getting a good car.

Best of luck.

Hi, I too have owned both cars.

The BMW was seriously well built, but felt cumbersome to drive, with heavy steering and gearchanges. Was beautifully balanced with the DSC off, but horrible in the wet with it on - very effective but a complete enjoyment killer.

I've had several A3s, all were very good, although the percieved quality is higher than the reality - a lot of electrical gremlins! All were good to drive except my latest one a 2008 170 TDI with DSG box - the engine has too much peaky power for damp roads, and it's not a good combination with the DSG box. They have ruined the steering of the latest versions too - probably gone to a full electric system??? It feels like there's too much caster sometimes, and the feedback is gone.

BMW could be a pain to drive in heavy traffic - can you try them first?

Having said all this, I too agree that you should go with your heart. Both cars are good by most standards.

 Thanks for your comments.  The BMW I sat in was the new shape (did not like the old shape that much), was on discount due to some scratches - which were not that bad unless you really started looking.  I can see that it feels bigger, but anything is going to be better than my 12 year old Vectra! :-)

Planning to go back this week and test drive both of them, i guess that will really answer my questions.

From peoples experience here, is each car different? If I test drive one, but buy another will it have a different feel?

Is Diesel really a big issue over petrol? I understand performance will be a little bit down, but would I really notice the difference in the real world?

I am going to go manual - kind of old fashioned like that - although the amount i sit in traffic in London a automatic would make more sense.  The Audi has DSG, which I guess is best of both options.

How does the DSG work?  if you put it in that mode do you just padel up and down.  What happens if you do it too quick? Does the car go nuts, trying to get my head around not having a clutch pedal?

Seems I need to pounce the second the right spec comes in on price.

 All cars feel different from one another although there are usually family similarities. However, the  BMW you are considering is rear wheel drive and the Audi front, like your Vectra so they can feel quite different. Therefore test driving one and then choosing the other (without driving it) would not seem sensible.

I have had 5 A3s - 2 of the original shape and, following a  3 series, 3 of the newer one with the last 2 both having the DSG gearbox. The box allows you to leave it in full auto mode, either 'normal'  (which is where mine stays most of the time) or 'sport' though you can override it at any time using the paddles or stick (it won't let you do anything stupid like over-rev the engine), or you can choose to do all the changes yourself, again using either the paddles or the stick. The DSG changes in about 1 tenth of a second so its unlikely you'll catch it out  by paddling too quickly. Its a fantastic gearbox and even Jeremy Clarkson reckons its the only 'paddle' box that actually works.

As to petrol or diesel, again you need to drive them. Whilst a diesel may appear to have less out and out performance on paper, its superior torque will usually give you very good usable performance - like quick acceleration with fewer gear changes. My A3s have all been petrol and I've had the 200bhp with DSG and now have a 160bhp with DSG. I tried the 140bhp diesel with DSG and that felt very lively. I stuck with petrol as I couldn't get the delivery I wanted on either of the diesels (140bhp or 170 bhp)

 Have you considered any other cars? As someone mentioned, it's really matching your personal choice to the practical reality  of such things as long term cost of ownership (reliability, cost to run, depreciation etc) Having owned an both, I have to say I prefer the design of the A3 much more over the BMW. I am not a fan of the exterior of interior design of the current 3. The E46 was my favourite design. That said, the Audi did give me more problems electronic/mechanical than the BMW. Thankfully, when I owned them, both were covered under warranty but if you plan on keeping the car beyond the OEM warranty, then keep that in mind. If you haven't yet, I would suggest testing a VW GTI, or waiting for the new one next spring. I think you get 80-90% of what's great about the A3, without the added cost. I test drove one and absolutely loved it with the DSG. Good luck!

punderwood75:

Planning to go back this week and test drive both of them, i guess that will really answer my questions.

Definitely, a must when buying a car, what ever it is. 

punderwood75:

Is Diesel really a big issue over petrol? I understand performance will be a little bit down, but would I really notice the difference in the real world?

Ahh the old petrol / diesel debate.

Diesels in the real world are quicker than a petrol due to their low end torque.  London and round town driving will utilise this aspect of the engine most.  On top of that you will get better fuel economy.  However, if you are not really doing the mileage then possibly due to the slightly higher price of purchasing a diesel and the extra pennies at the pumps, a petrol car may cost you less over the course of ownership.

If however you like reving an engine and are more likely to be doing out of town, back road and fast driving then a petrol will be better for you.  Petrol is cheaper at the pumps and if you drive sensibly you will probably save money over the diesel if you are doing lower mileages.

Again, see what you like when you drive the cars.  I had a diesel at one point (was seduced by the torque on a car I borrowed), but rapidly got bored with it.  You may find the same.

punderwood75:

How does the DSG work?  if you put it in that mode do you just padel up and down.  What happens if you do it too quick? Does the car go nuts, trying to get my head around not having a clutch pedal?

You will get used to the DSG box very quickly.  It is also pretty much fool proof, so don't worry too much about it.  Points to consider though.  Audi's box is a stickler for servicing, so make sure it is done at the right intervals or you could be heading for trouble.  Again, if you are used to and enjoy a manual the DSG will suit you for 70% of the time.  The other 30% you will end up frustrated and wishing you had gone for the standard box.  It's just a little less involving.

That said, it is ideal for London traffic, and if you generally are not fussed about gear changing then it is the best of both worlds.

I d go the DSG Audi way...  2 litre BMW diesels used to be significantly faster (and better engines)when the VAG motor was doing up to 130bhp (actually they still are if we count the twin turbo 200bhp motor on the 123d). I think now that advantage has narrowed.  BMW have also traditionally be better dynamically.

However, I think A3's are very stylish,  half the country's travelling salesmen don't actually have one (unlike the BMW 320 - also one of the most popular company cars) and would be slightly more exclusive (and more handsome - subjectively of course).

 Neither car would be a bad choice... Manual in London could well be one though....

Hi

Hoping someone is around - so back at Car Giant now and just about to buy a BMW 320i 2.2 SE 2005 35,000 miles.  The only thing that is stopping me is that the clutch is really stiff.  It drives fine, but it feels like my leg is getting a serious work out.  I sat in a BMW318i and the clutch is as smooth as silk.  Any idea if this is normal? The price is really good for the spec - only issue is the clutch.  Then again I have never owned anything like this before so no idea.

 Thanks

 

As far as I'm concerned, there's no comparison - BMW every time.  God knows where that other guy up above gets the idea that the BMW's interior is cheap and old fashioned, I don't think it is subjective to say that it is ultra modern and, subjectively, stylish.  The A3 has a reaonable looking interior, but very traditional, rather boring and a world away in every respect from the A4 and upwards.  I also far prefer the BMW to drive and I am a fan of the 2 litre petrol.  I think in every BMW, bar perhaps the Z4 with the same 2.0 litre petrol, BMW have hit the nail on the head with regards to day-to-day sporty handling in that they have produced a range of cars that feel overtly sporty and great to drive, without being overly stiffly sprung and knocking your teeth out whenever you hit a bump or a sleeping policeman.  The Audi is dull to look at, inside and out - would rather have a current model Golf as I think it looks pretty similar to the new one whereas the A3 replacement will no doubt look quite different to the current model.  HOWEVER, I do think the BMW is incredibly ugly, but would put up with it for the interior and the driving experience.  I also prefer rear wheel drive.  I'm not an Audi hater, in fact I recently took a serious look at the 2.0T Sportback, but to me it really feels like a car launched in 2004 whilst the BMW would still feel bang-on as a new car.

 I don't think the clutch issue is normal, though it is definitely more stiffly sprung than the Audi I would say.  Why not buy it subject to the clutch pedal being adjusted at CarGiant's expense should you find that there is an issue with it (or any of the ancilliary parts to the clucth pedal.  Or the clutch itself for that matter...).