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Wed
Sep 10 2008

Did Lewis gain an advantage?

Andrew Frankel
I know this isn’t going to make me popular, but I’m surprised that McLaren has decided to pursue its appeal against the demotion of Lewis Hamilton from first to third in the Belgian Grand Prix.

Amid all the righteous indignation, I’ve not yet heard or read anything to convince me that Lewis did not gain an advantage by cutting the chicane at the Bus Stop.




And, so far as I’m aware, the rules don’t say you must simply relinquish any positions gained, but that you must not gain an advantage. So the question is very straightforward: had Lewis followed Kimi through the Bus Stop in the usual way, would he have been in a position to outbrake him at La Source? If not, an advantage was gained.

Of course the punishment did not fit the offence - if, indeed, an offence there was - but of all teams, McLaren must know that if it gives the FIA so much as a piece of string, it will be hanged by it.

I think Lewis gave them the string and once in that position, the FIA was never going to lenient. Do not mistake me, Lewis was the rightful winner of the race but sadly ‘that’s not fair’ does not constitute formal grounds for appeal.

Unless McLaren can show that Lewis did not break the rules, however unjust those rules may seem in those particular circumstances, it’s hard to see how the appeal can succeed.

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About Andrew Frankel

Talents are limited to "driving cars and writing English." In 19th century France he would, therefore, have been stuffed; as it is, Andrew's the perfect Autocar road test writer.

Comments

fifer4437 September 10, 2008 12:02 PM

Hamilton was alongside Kimi going into the chicane but behind and, according to McLaren telemetry, slower at the start/finish line.  Where was the advantage in that?  A factor that does not seem to have been taken into account was that at that stage the Ferrari had all the performance of a brick as events later in the lap demonstrated.

skiwi September 10, 2008 12:21 PM

mr frankel, you astound me.  amid all the shrill over-reaction from those paid to know (and write) better, you are the first i have read from the fair land of mother england to identify the real issue.  lewis over-reacted and forgot the lesson of valencia ('patience' and 'see the big picture').  in doing so he immediately attacked kimi after having "conceeded" the place on the short straight after the chicane.  looking at the footage, it is clear that kimi's car was still recovering from the wheel banging at the chicane and his attempts to (twice) get back on the line were rebuffed by lewis' new attack.  

clearly advantage gained.

(fia) conspiracy theories always work much better because you don't need any logic. lemme see, after the incident, max (boo, hiss) rings the stewards.  reminds them that he pays their salaries (umm, he doesn't) and that they had better nobble naughty mclaren when they have the chance.  and if they don't he'll, umm, go to the press....

beautiful!

AndyRAC September 10, 2008 12:25 PM

The real problem is that the rules seem ambiguous, hence the lengthly arguments on here. Did he/didn't he gain an advantage? What is an advantage?

The rules should be black & white, and everybody knows what they are. If the Race Director thinks the info he's giving is correct yet later isn't - then there are issues.

Personally they should have given him a slap on the wrists with a fine, then sort it out starting next season so everybody knows were they stand.

David Harrington-Wright September 10, 2008 12:49 PM

As McLaren have once again challenged stewards decisions, should they not be stripped of all their points this season so far, and chucked out - no fine this time though, then Ferrari can rightfully win and all will be well in the FIA...

From a committed but not insane Ferrari Fan

phenergn September 10, 2008 12:59 PM

Interesting point regarding the fact that Kimi was still trying to recover his line and settle the car after the wheel banging. That's the only half-reasonable example someone has given as to how Hamilton may have had an advantage (he certainly didn't have more speed down the straight once he'd backed off, that's clear from the video).

However if that's the case wouldn't the problem have come from the wheel-banging and not hamilton cutting the corner? And since the minor collision was equally Kimi's fault it is not within the rules to penalise hamilton.

cobra September 10, 2008 1:20 PM

Hamilton - Spa.

i think the stewards should have looked at both Kimi and Lewis. Kimi was clearly going much slower on that lap, Lewis was catching at a rapid rate. I think had Lewis followed Kimi around the Chicane- there would have been every chance that Lewis would have taken Kimi and the next turn - Hence no advantage.

Look how quickly Lewis overtook Kimi - half way down the start finish straight !  By that time Kimi was going as fast as Del Boy's three wheelers.

There were many more dubiuos moves during the race and the Stewards made no comments to at all. Clearly Hamilton has become high profile - And you can see  in the Stewards decision - Lets be more consistent.

And lets not turn F1 into a procession again when knowbody wants to try overtaking for the punisment they might receive - The world is getting to politically correct !

bjmullan September 10, 2008 1:54 PM

Of course he gained an advantage.  If there was a wall or gravel trap rather than a nice grippy escape road Hamilton would have had to back way off and get behind Kimi and he would have been doing a lot less the 6 kph difference over the finish line.  

He would have most likely been able to take him at Le Combe but that is not the point, he gained an advantage and if the race was a bit longer would have been given a unappealable drive through.  

"Slowly slowly catch a monkey".  

Championship lost at the pit entrance in 2007 and down an escape road in 2008.  Well at least he didn't lose it on the track....

Latebreaker September 10, 2008 2:20 PM

The fact that racing legend Niki Lauda reckoned the stewards decision was a joke says it all to me.

If Lewis took the chicane normally then two cars into one corner dont go at the bus stop and we would of had an accident.

Thers's nothing in the rules that stated he had to wait till Eau Rouge to overtake Kimi after letting him through so why not La Source. People say could Lewis have overtaken Kimi if he had taken the bus stop correctly, but it wouldnt of mattered judging how early Kimi broke for La Source.

The boy still has a two point lead and if he wins the championship is would be even sweeter cos he had to beat the FIA and Ferrari.

If this was Alonso that got punished I can't imagine much of the Spanish media questioning if he did gain an advantage.

glorfindel September 10, 2008 2:26 PM

I'm a Ferrari fan from Italy, and this probably makes me "the enemy"...

As you can imagine I agree with Mr Frankel, but I don't want to speak about that...

I just would like to say that changing the final winner of the race bacause of a penalization is very sad. Acoording to me it was much more better to decide a penalty for the qualifying session of the following GP, Monza.

The other thing I would say is that McLaren fans' self-pity is really pathetic. Calling FIA Ferrari International Assistance sounds stange to me when last year the same Association first discharged the McLaren Team for owning Ferrari's secret files, and only thanks to Alonso FIA then found McLaren guilty. McLaren lost all its points, but not Lewis who could fight till last race with a car that should be disqualified.

I'm not trying to convince you that Lewis gained an advantage, but please... Cospiracy theory is really rubbish!

montgomery September 10, 2008 5:15 PM

"Of course he gained an advantage.  If there was a wall or gravel trap rather than a nice grippy escape road Hamilton would have had to back way off and get behind Kimi and he would have been doing a lot less the 6 kph difference over the finish line. "

exactly!!!!

montgomery September 10, 2008 5:17 PM

"The other thing I would say is that McLaren fans' self-pity is really pathetic. Calling FIA Ferrari International Assistance sounds stange to me when last year the same Association first discharged the McLaren Team for owning Ferrari's secret files, and only thanks to Alonso FIA then found McLaren guilty. McLaren lost all its points, but not Lewis who could fight till last race with a car that should be disqualified."

Well said!!!!  

Bigstroke September 10, 2008 10:31 PM

Mr. Frankel your words are indeed a breath of fresh air to me. As an American F1 fan I was beginning to feel disheartened by all the uproar from all the pro-McLaren-damn-the-facts press and the usual JYS babble. When a driver shortcuts the track it is up to HIM to demonstrate that he has surrendered any

and all advantages.

mattsyko@yahoo.co.uk September 10, 2008 11:17 PM

Great to finally see a journalist making sense. Quite agree with bjmullan, if he had tried the move at monaco he would have been slightly more than 6kph down on the straight..... Despite not being a Hamilton fan, no he didn't deserve to lose the race as he drove brilliantly, but yes he did deserve a penalty. He did a similar thing in France, and got a drive through but I don't remember a huge fuss being made then...

And also getting fed up with the FIA/McLaren conspiracy stories. Despite the fact that this has nothing to do with the FIA (it was a Stewards decision), are the FIA really that stupid to delibrately and obviously go after one team? McLaren setting themselves up more like..

hamishl September 11, 2008 9:58 PM

Having been penalised for this already this seson, you may perhaps expect that he would hold off overtaking at La Source regardless. I'm a Ferrari fan through and through, but I was surprised to hear that Hamilton didn't win because of this; as was pointed out in an earlier post though, if it had happened earlier and he'd been deemed to have gained an advantage he would have received a drive through penalty, which would have cost him around 25 seconds, so I guess you can see the logic in the stewards decision

dillonsamben September 12, 2008 7:10 AM

Forget all the thoughts about racing what is fair and what is not, racing lines, late breaking moves, the FIA and their spurious interpretation of the rules……..  This was surely all about the FIA acting as puppets for the man who controls GP F1, namely Mr. I must always be obeyed Berni !

If Berni’s phone call to puppet man Mosley had been recorded it would reveal why Hamilton was treated the way he was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vectra32 September 12, 2008 5:34 PM

Mr. Montgomery:

The hypocracy of this whole story is that in 1991 Max Mosley challanged the then President of the FIA, bcause of a similar situation - Senna was unfairly disqualified from a race.

In recent years the FIA's actions both on and off the track have effected their credibility - reflected in declining viewing figures.

Let's hope that someone is as disgusted as Max was, and brings some integrity back into this great sport.

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