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GD October 3, 2008 1:46 PM

Funny how they can achieve all this when pushed, but just expected us all to pay for more petrol/diesel etc. when they could get away with it.

GD October 3, 2008 1:47 PM

Your new system is not understood. I have posted my comment and now you want more? Has my first comment been accepted?

nicfaz October 3, 2008 2:37 PM

Not a question of 'getting away with it' but more responding to customer demands - the demand wasn't there before.  However, I would say that too many companies just listen to what they think are the demands (I'm looking a Jaguar here) and don't think for themselves what the demands ought to be.  BMW produces ugly cars, but they are faster, do more to the gallon and handle better than most of the competition and that's what the customer really wants, even if they don't say so.

horseandcart October 3, 2008 3:19 PM

Can we knock this incorrect statement of 130g CO2/km as the EU rule from 2012 on the head. It is 120g. Check with the EU Environment committee yourself - I have. They state 120g. The confusion has arisen because of nonsense by the EU legislators that the extra 10g reduction should come from solar cells on the roof or low rolling resistance tyres. It's nonsense. The fact is they wish to legislate for 120g from 2012, period.

Bear in mind that the average emission level for new cars in leading European markets like Germany and UK is still over 160g. According to SMMT information in the last decade the average CO2 figure has only fallen 13%, so from around 185g in 1998 to 160g today, a 25g reduction. The lunatics in Brussels now wish to go from 160g+ to 120g in barely over 3 years! A 25%+ reduction.

Yes Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes-Benz can do sub 120g cars now but all this engineering and development work has to be paid for. The customer will eventually pay. All this at a time when the likelihood is of a 25% minimum decline of new car sales in N.American and W.European car markets in the next year compared to the record highs of 2007.  At a time when tens of thousands of workers are losing their jobs in the car makers and supply chains the aging commies, '68 radicals wish to seize their chance to smash the makers of the plutocrats limousines, especially the German premium makers, leaving the proles to run around in identikit 21st century Trabis, whilst they have special order limos from taxpayer funds - see Commissioner Mandelson's demand for €100k Maserati for himself. Good luck to the Germans and their world-beating engineers. My money's on them to survive the attack of these parasitic clowns again and triumph.

horseandcart October 3, 2008 4:03 PM

Re. the softer valve springs, it's only for the inlet valves. Plus, internal friction losses have been reduced with special piston rings.

I think you may have it wrong with the 'heated gearbox oil'. From what I've read elsewhere the description is of 'thermal isolating' of the new lighter 'box. Not active heating as such but reduced heat loss from box through insulation, which affects obviously the viscosity of the box oil and hence quicker warm up and less fuel consumption. Do you agree?

One last point, when the consumption figure gets translated to imperial, 58.95mpg in this case, it loses its impact from the original metric or SI figure. My point? My point is this car is stated as consuming 3.99 litres of diesel per 100 kilometres. The engineers and commercial people at VW Group have obviously seen worth in hitting key breakpoints, like £9.99 rather than £10. The same thing applied back in the days of the Audi A2 TDI ten years or so ago. It was claimed to be a '3 litre car', i.e. 3l/100km.

PS having checked the conversion of 3.99l/100km I get 70.81mpg! Not 58.95!

3.99 litres is less than one gallon; 100 kms in more than 60 miles. So without a calculator you can see this car uses less than one gallon to travel over 60 miles. How in the name of god did you get your figure? Was it provided by Audi people or did you convert it yourself?

from the horse's mouth:

www.audi.de/.../Effizienz_fuer_die_Zukunft__Der_Audi_A4_TDI_concept_e.html

"100km mit durchschnittlich 3,99 Liter Kraftstoff"

horseandcart October 3, 2008 4:17 PM

Final, final point on this it's expected this version will appear middle of next year with an on-price of around £1,000. So, assuming a fuel saving of around 1.5 litres/100km to the normal base 2.0TDI model one would have to drive for more than 3 years at 10,000 miles a year to recover the extra outlay.

HiltonH October 3, 2008 9:58 PM

Horse, you are quite right on the fuel consumption. I blogged this in the early in my Paris hotel room and used the US figure. Sorry. Should have spotted that.

As for the '3-litre' tag, we tried using it when the A2 and Lupo were around, but most people thought it meant the car had a, er, three-litre engine.

Also, you are right about the 120 v 130, but I just simplifed the issue 'cos this is brief blog.

As for the heated gearbox oil? Well, that was a direct quote from the Audi UK PR boss...I may have misunderstood. Are you saying it is permanently heated?

Finally, I like the '68 radicals' line. This country (and the EU) will be a better place when the young generation who remember the Paris riots have finally worked their way through the system. They have been trying to ape this 'smash the establishment' nonsense all their lives. Funny, though, how Peter Mandleson would rather be driven over the cobbles, rather than throw them... Incidentally, I saw Sarcozy arrive at the Paris Show just as I left. He was hardly taller than his bomb-proof C6. When ever I see French police outriders, I always think of 'Day of the Jackal'.

horseandcart October 4, 2008 11:13 AM

Hilton,

this from Audi.de press bulletin for the 'Audi A4 TDI concept e' regarding the gearbox thermal insulating:

"Eine ausgeschäumte Schale dient als Isolierung; sie sorgt dafür, dass das Getriebeöl nach dem Start schneller warm wird."

www.audi.de/.../Effizienz_fuer_die_Zukunft__Der_Audi_A4_TDI_concept_e.html

An "expanded foam" shell serves as insulation; this provides that the gearbox oil becomes warm quicker after start-up". There is no 'heating', just better thermal insulation, less heat loss to outside the box, which means that the oil heats up to operating temp. quicker and thus reduces friction losses thence fuel consumption due to lower viscosity. That's all. I think this means the shell or housing of the gearbox itself will be cast with tiny holes in a foam structure rather than a separate applied expanded polystyrene type shell outside the housing, like a domestic hot water tank jacket. This foam(German: Schaum, 'ausgeschaeumt') structure as we know is a better thermal insulator, less heat conductiive than solid metal.